Diabetes Education and Research Center
Back Chats
On Tue Jul 31 22:03:44 2001 () said:
well, thats one for the
religionists.....but us rational people still have a chance...
On Tue Jul 31 19:36:54 2001 C.M. () said:
The bill approving human cloning
was just declined. Meaning scientists cannot create embryos to develop the stem
cell. That's one strike against SCR but not the major one. That one will be if
Bush denies funding for SCR.
On Tue Jul 31 17:56:03 2001 **** (****) said:
One day God was looking down
at Earth and saw all of the evil that was going on. He decided to send an angel
down to Earth to check it out. So he called on a female angel and sent her to
Earth for a time. When she returned she told God, yes it is bad on Earth, 95%
are bad and about 5% are good. . Well, he thought for a moment and said maybe I
had better send down a male angel to get both points of view. So God called a
male angel and sent him to Earth for a time. When the male angel returned he
went to God and told him yes the Earth is in decline, 95% are bad and 5% are
good. God said this is not good. He decided to E-mail the 5% that were good and
encourage them ,a little something to keep them going. Do you know what that
e-mail said? ? ? ? You didn't get one either?
On Tue Jul 31 16:45:21 2001 Sam () said:
Kitty porn..yes, one cat, one
bikini bottom, 2 tops, and yes, waving one around..kitties have 8 nipples, ya
know. I did a cat-toon about that one...let's get back to diabetes. No
candy.
On Tue Jul 31 16:38:58 2001 () said:
HERE KITTY KITTY KITTY, HERE KITTY
KITTY KITTY. HEY LITTLE KITTY,WANTS SOME CANDY?
On Tue Jul 31 16:36:36 2001 () said:
I'm sorry, but that has got to be one
of the funniest things I have seen here. Kitty porn, you gotta laugh at that
one! What an idiot.
On Tue Jul 31 16:09:42 2001 Faith (same) said:
15:57:38 - They are humans,
and even forgiven ones make mistakes. There is a saying, God doesn't love the
sin, just the sinner!
On Tue Jul 31 16:01:14 2001 () said:
kitty porn? when did cats start posing
nude?
On Tue Jul 31 15:57:38 2001 () said:
why do so many fundemental preachers
get caught with whores, little boys and kitty porn..????
On Tue Jul 31 15:44:51 2001 () said:
One woman I know actually posted on her
site that it happened to her son, AND PEOPLE BELIEVED HER! She obviously heard
about this and decided to make it her "harrowing experience of the day".
........SAY,JIM,.........WHO WAS THE SLUGNUTTY WOMAN WHO CLAIMED THIS HAPPENED
TO HER SON??????????????STTTRRRRAAAANNNNGGGGEEEEE WOMAN
THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WASNT THAT BROAD WHO CALLED HER SELF TEXAS WAS
IT???????????
On Tue Jul 31 15:44:25 2001 C.M. () said:
John, if you need me to be Marc,
fine with me. I don't care who you asign credits of my posts to. The CM is MC Is
MW thing was good.Wrong, but good. It's odd though, you call people cowards for
posting without a name (which I am using) as you do exactly what you are calling
others cowards for. So what does that make you? Steve, it is hard to "discuss"
anything here without the defenses up. Hell I stated a few opinions over the
last couple of days and our friend here thinks I am someone else. But if we talk
diabetes and even SCR and the moral questions it brings up, then let the
children have their fun. Or is it THAN? Hmmm, which one would Marc use? And BTW,
wouldn't I have a yellow "colored" STRIPE down my spine?
On Tue Jul 31 15:41:54 2001 () said:
AND PLEASE DONT FORGET THE REVEREND
BILLY GRAHAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On Tue Jul 31 15:01:17 2001 ... (...) said:
So what's the chance Tammy Faye,
Jimmy Swaggert, and Co. can give this a rest sometime in the near future???
On Tue Jul 31 15:00:17 2001 () said:
C.M. = MARC COOPERS INTIAILS BACKWARDS
= MARC W,......HIS COWARDICE BAFFLES ME,.....A YELLOW COLOURED STRIP DOWN HIS
SPINE
On Tue Jul 31 14:23:18 2001 () said:
STEVE YOU STILL POSTED ONE THING,THEN
DENIED IT,THEN WHEN IT WAS REPOSTED YOU WAFFLED
AGAIN....LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DEVIL WORSHIPPER
On Tue Jul 31 14:18:59 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
CM --
You point out one of the problems inherent in trying to "discuss" something on a
message board like this. It's too easy to read more into what someone writes
than is actually there. Add to that the fact that we really don't know each
other and it becomes a fertile ground for misunderstanding. Maybe we should
assume less and ask more questions, like "What do you mean when you said ...?"
People here don't look for fights, but many here are frustrated when others jump
to conclusions about something they "said" without taking a minute to ask them
for more information. I think if we practiced that, we could avoid a lot of
misunderstanding here.
On Tue Jul 31 13:25:19 2001 C.M. () said:
Faith, I wrote that at 10:56 and
never attacked you. You may be confusing my post with some of the others. I
believe you should be judged by how you treat your fellow man or woman, not by
religious beliefs. That is my point. I won't touch on the being hurt by someone
posing as a christian comment because it is off base and will lead to an
arguement, and also takes away from what this board was doing this morning.
Talking about diabetes. Steve, your post at 12:22 has a much different tone to
it. one that makes more sense with what you say. I agree to everything you said
in regards to the best defense. I guess my point being is I wouldn't want to see
someone beat themselves up over getting sick. Having complications I suppose is
bad enough without feeling as if they brought them on themselves. I haven't had
anything bad to speak of, but I know a few who have and it's natural to blame
oneself and would hope that the support they received here is more a line of
"luck of the draw" as you said instead of well, you brought it on yourself. You
see, if we stop looking for a fight, sometimes there never was one to begin
with? Something to ponder.
On Tue Jul 31 13:01:41 2001 Faith (same) said:
BTW - 10:56- You're right, my
being a Christian doesn't make me better than you or anyone else. That we do
agree on. My believing in Christ just makes me forgiven! What are you so afraid
of, that you attack others on every little thing they say. I'm sorry if someone
'posing' as a Christian hurt you or did something to make you angry, but all I'm
asking of you is to stop lumping those of us who state their feelings in regards
to SCR as religious nuts, not all who are opposed are Christians. Jim, BTW, I'm
not mad at anyone! I'm just perplexed at the hatefulness of some people to those
that are different or have different views than they do. And they have the nerve
to say Herb and I, just because he/she has some distorted view of what Southern
Baptists are, hate Jews and Catholics and all the other trash they keep throwing
at us. I'm not mad! If anything I feel sorry for their norrow-mindeness!
On Tue Jul 31 12:58:24 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
Faith
-- I agree with you on all your points. As I said to CM, I probably should have
used the word "may" -- as in you may avoid complications. Perhaps my choice of
words was confusing -- where I grew up the word "can" meant possibility, so that
"you can avoid" to me meant there is the possibility of avoiding, not the
certainty of avoiding.
On Tue Jul 31 12:52:10 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
Dear
12:47:04 -- Thank you for repeating that for me. As I said there, this is MY
OPINION. I stand by every word I wrote there. It is unfortunate you have a
hysterical problem with it and must resort to name-calling to make a point -- a
point which at this moment escapes me. Maybe you can enlighten me as to what you
are trying to say?
On Tue Jul 31 12:50:31 2001 Faith (same) said:
Steve & C.M. good
discussion there! Steve, I agree with what CM said, one can do everything they
are suppose to do, and still complications. My grandmother did just that and
still developed problems w/her liver! Then there is me! I'm doing everything I
can now to do what I should, but just like you said, there was times where I
didn't. And in spite of myself, I've "missed the bullit" so far. I don't expect
that to always be the case. Sooner or later this 'thing' catches up with us.
That's MY opinion. Herb, I couldn't have said it better! Thanks! To whom ever it
may concern, let me again say, don't lump me in with the idea you have of how
Christians act. Any that you may have seen that do the things you are accusing
me of is totally out of my behavior. There are a lot of people out there who
"think" they are Christians, just because they go to church, or because their
Mother is a life long church member, that doesn't make them one. Me thinks thee
duth protest too much! One should never put down others when they don't have ALL
the facts.
On Tue Jul 31 12:47:04 2001 STEVE,...YOU NEVER SAID WHAT????? (READ YOUR OWNS
WORDS FOOL!!!!!!!) said:
On Mon Jul 30 11:41:05 2001 Steve
(stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said: Dear AP: The point is you don't have to die
from diabetes. It is a disease that can be controlled. People manage to do it
every day. Faith posted that she was diagnosed 33 years ago and she is still
going strong. Via diet, exercise and meds, I am gaining a little more control
each day. IMHO, you die from diabetes when you choose to let IT control YOU.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Tue Jul 31 12:26:52 2001 Herb (hjs38@swbell.net) said:
To (): Where do
you get the idea that we as Christians would do all the things you accused Faith
of? I'm sure that we would not be interested in coming to your house unless we
had an invitation to do so as friends. As far as books and tapes go I'm sure
that what you and your family choose to read and listen to is your business and
we do not choose to infringe on that. With regards to putting your children in
Christian schools, I don't even see how this is possible. The Christian schools
are full of students. Many of which don't come from Christian families but their
folks recognize the quality of education they get there as opposed to the public
schools. Since all of the church schools receive subsidies from the supporting
church and non church members do not financially support the church this already
creates a very real financila burdern on the school and church without having to
force any children to attend who don't want to. Herb (Bear)
On Tue Jul 31 12:22:18 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
CM --
You make a good point. Perhaps I should avoid using the word "can" and
substitute the word "may" instead. Everything I've read and been told by medical
experts indicates that strict control is the best defense against complications.
So, if I choose to ignore that advice and ignore maintaining control, then I
have no one to blame but myself if I end up with diabetic complications. On the
other hand, if I maintain control, do everything my doctor says to do, eat right
and exercise and still suffer complications, then I would say I suffered the
"luck of the draw." In my case, I don't know how many years I went with out of
control blood sugar readings before I was diagnosed (for years I avoided doctors
like the plague). Even though I am gaining control now, I don't know how much
damage has already been done by my poor choices for years (decades) before my
diagnosis. So in my case, if I do end up with complications, I have no one to
blame but me, because I made the choice to eat & drink what I wanted, ignore
exercise, pack on pounds and not get regular checkups. Again, my opinion only. I
respect and appreciate your input.
On Tue Jul 31 12:05:40 2001 C.M. () said:
Steve, i know that wasn't to me
but I would like to respond. You say if one maintains strict control they can
avoid complications. But that is not the fact. It brings in a much higher
precentage that you can avoid complications, but no one here should expect to
live their entire lives problem free even with the best control. Anything short
of a cure and you still run the risk of getting sick. We shouldn't sit around
and dwell on it, but accept that as a fact and you'll be prepared if you do have
something go wrong. I can't agree more that the best control is the best thing
you can do for yourself, but the fact remains is it not a sure thing, anything
could happen.
On Tue Jul 31 11:58:34 2001 () said:
Steve, I am the 11:25 poster. You seem
to have a few people posting to you, so if you want to respond just call me C.M.
for now on.
On Tue Jul 31 11:57:57 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
To
11:32:58 -- My opinion: Everyone should take responsiblity for their choices in
life. I never said that if diabetics get sick and die, it is their fault. That
is a figment of your imagination. I said if one maintains strict control, they
can avoid complications. That's what I've been taught and it's what I believe.
Finally, the lack of respect I referred to was when people stoop to name-calling
and misrepresenting what others say (something you are doing in your post).
On Tue Jul 31 11:32:58 2001 () said:
STEVE-LACK OF RESPECT? YOU TELL
DIABETICS IF THEY GET SICK AND DIE IT IS THEIR FAULT AND YOU SAY OTHERS HAVE A
LACK OF RESPECT? YOUR HOUSE DOESN'T HAVE ANY MIRRORS, DOES IT?
On Tue Jul 31 11:25:42 2001 () said:
Well Steve, you can look at it this way
also. The more attention you place on name calling the more attention you take
away from the debate and info. This place needs to toughen up. You guys fight a
deadly disease daily better then you handle some jerk name calling. Keep
focusing on that and we will never get anywhere.
On Tue Jul 31 11:25:13 2001 () said:
STEVE STOP YOUR WHINEING
On Tue Jul 31 11:23:38 2001 () said:
Faith, if you got the chance you would
come into our houses, take our books and tapes away, put our children in your
religious schools, and force feed us your religious myth and fantasy, thats your
real goal...we are just lucky there are enough freethinkers around to meet you
at the door...
On Tue Jul 31 11:16:40 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
Being
passionate about an issue or belief is terrific, however, it is demeaning and
childish to resort to personal attacks like name-calling and false accusations
in order to make your point. When people resort to those tactics, it lowers the
quality of the discussion and shows a lack of respect for others. As for how to
stop it? Just stop typing for a second and ask yourself -- how would I feel if
someone said that to me? Maybe taking that moment to stop and think can help
people avoid the nastiness. Now a news item for us Type 2's -- check out the
news article on Yahoo at this URL:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010730/hl/diabetes_fat_1.html It talks about
some hormone treatments that could lower cell resistance to insulin -- the
problem most Type 2's face. While the research is very preliminary, it does hold
some promise.
On Tue Jul 31 10:56:33 2001 () said:
FAITH, EXPLAIN FOR US WHY YOU SAID
YESTERDAY THAT THE ATTACKER WAS FEARFUL OF FINDING OUT THE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE
RIGHT? THAT STATEMENT BRINGS WITH IT AN ATTITUDE OF SUPERIORITY OVER THOSE NON
BELIEVERS. SO IF YOU DON'T WANT THE ATTACK, DON'T ACT LIKE YOU ARE BETTER THEN
US. I THINK THAT IS SIMPLE AND NON ATTACKING. YOU BELIEVING IN GOD DOES NOT MAKE
YOU A BETTER PERSON, AND IF YOU THINK SO YOU DESERVE THE ATTACKS. AS FOR SCR,
THIS SAME DEBATE RAGES ON IN CONGRESS, IT IS THE MOST TALKED ABOUT THING IN THE
MEDICAL COMMUNITY EVER. SINCE WE ALL CAN AND MAY BE EFFECTED IT MAKES SENSE FOR
ALL OF US TO HAVE STRONG OPINIONS. Shoot, I just saw that I had caps on. Sorry,
don't feel like retyping, didn't mean to shout. So I think a good solid debate
is perfectly fine here. We are talking about the rest of our lives, I would
expect people to be passionate about it. The subject is good, the debate is good
and the name calling, let us know when you figure out how to stop it. Until then
take the good with the bad.
On Tue Jul 31 10:06:03 2001 Jim (same) said:
Faith- I wholeheartedly respect
yours and everyone else's opinion. I also agree that we should all debate
without attacking. I'm sorry that people are bashing the religous people on
here. Not that I'm NOT religous, just not sure right now. People by nature are
mean Faith, and I know it's hard not to get mad. Try to think of it like I
posted yesterday: They don't know you so how can they judge you? Showing them
that your angry just thrills them. I refuse to let them know when or if they
make me mad. I'll just bash them back in a clean way. Trust me, if everyone
started giving them what they're giving us, they'd probably stop or slow down
the attacks. It's no fun getting jabbed. Jim
On Tue Jul 31 09:52:48 2001 Faith (saext@hotmail.com) said:
Jim, I
appreciate your post and you stating your opinion. Not that I agree with it, but
that you stated it in such a non-attacking way. I know that there are a lot of
people for SCR, hoping that it will lead to a cure for us and many more people
with other type of diseases. I'm always praying for a cure, (not praying for God
to cure me, unless it is His will), but not to the extent that it takes a
(human) life. The procedure Steve talked about, using the cells from the
umbilical cords, is the only way I would be willing to go. I will agree that my
motivation to this belief is based on my faith in God, but I know that there are
others out there who do not believe in God that are opposed to it also. The
thing on here that totally disgusts me is the attack on me and others that the
only reason I'm against certain forms of SCR is because I'm trying to ram my
faith down others throats. Why does my standing up proclaiming what I believe
get twisted around as being a ring kisser? I have never gone after anyone on
here because they do not believe in God. Why do some feel like they have to
continually bash those of us who do believe? Herb very patiently outlined how we
"all" should discuss our ideas and beliefs on finding a cure for this lovely
disease we are stuck with. Then what happens, he gets accused of copying it out
of a book, and gets blasted for trying to bring some sanity to this site. What
good is this personal attacking accomplishing? NOTHING, NADA, ZERO! Please,
let's all get off the name calling and get down to sharing our fears, hopes, and
opinions w/o such abuse!
On Tue Jul 31 09:36:44 2001 () said:
Connie how can you be fooled so easy by
that aspertane story ?? you must enjoy spreading rumors
On Tue Jul 31 08:41:52 2001 Jim (The complete list) said:
http://www.stiller.com/hoaxa.htm
On Tue Jul 31 08:40:54 2001 Jim (Funny, this is the EXACT story she used.) said:
http://www.stiller.com/water.htm
On Tue Jul 31 08:31:26 2001 Jim (Aspartame Hoax) said:
http://www.acsh.org/press/editorials/HealthHoax012899.html
On Tue Jul 31 08:29:39 2001 Jim (same) said:
Connie- The aspartame thing IS
a hoax. It came out about a year ago. It's like the microwaving of water that
explodes in peoples faces. One woman I know actually posted on her site that it
happened to her son, AND PEOPLE BELIEVED HER! She obviously heard about this and
decided to make it her "harrowing experience of the day". Too many people
believe everything they read on the net. According to leading experts, the only
way the water will "explode" out of the cup when microwaving, is if you have a
brand new perfectly smooth cup on the inside. which is nearly impossible since
all cups have some sort of imperfections on the inside. Sorry to be so
opinionated and longwinded this morning. Jim
On Tue Jul 31 07:49:51 2001 Jim (jimfultz@alltel.net) said:
Good morning
everyone. Been having a problem with high morning blood sugars. Anyone got any
ideas on why? Haven't changed ANYTHING. I don't think I have an infection or
anything like that either. Interesting debate (almost) on Religion vs. SCR, but
the question is: How many that are against it would take the cure IF SCR
resulted in one? I'm sure that there are many treatments out there that we get
every day, that were born from questionable or objectable methods. I know that
this is different, but how many ladies on here wear make-up? Probably plenty.
Most make-up, from what I've read, was developed from testing on animals,
sometimes resulting in the animal being debilitated or dying. Of course this was
eons ago, but my point is, that once it was perfected, people forgot how it
became perfected in the first place. How many people decades ago, thought that
injecting an animal's insulin into their human body was unethical or just
totally wrong, just scientist's playing God? If you take a real hard look at it,
there are thousands of things that have been perfected for humanity at a cost of
something living, that at the time appalled millions of people. Personally, I
want cured. I DO care about where the cure comes from, but I also agree with
Embryonic SCR, as long as it's within the first tri-mester as one poster put it.
I'd be more appalled if these avenues weren't explored to find a cure, than if
they were. I'm afraid to die. It is said that anyone who isn't is either a fool
or a liar. What's waiting for us on the other side? Maybe everything, maybe
nothing. I'm not really sure, but I want to prolong finding out as long as
possible. Herb is right though, at least we could be civil when debating this.
Jim
On Tue Jul 31 04:56:16 2001 CB () said:
On Diabetes and complications: It is
true that controlling blood sugar, eating healthy, and squatting heavy (JOKE)
will reduce possibility of complications, NOT rule them out completely. I have
done pretty well for 46 years with this, but that can always change.
On Tue Jul 31 04:41:31 2001 () said:
OK CONNIE WE'LL COUNT YOU WITH THE RING
KISSERS AND THOSE THAT ARE FULL OF THEIR SELF SERVING MORALITY
On Tue Jul 31 01:10:35 2001 Connie (cmart74@aol.com) said:
Wow! This SCR
debate rages on & on & on...... ad nauseum. Let's just add this little
bit to the fray. In all the information I've been reading, they all use the same
word in their discriptions, SCR MAY..be a lifesaver in the treatment/cure for
diabetes, etc. MAY is a long ways from WILL. I believe as I've stated before,
that as long as SCR depends on unborn fetus' it is absolutly wrong. Nuff said..
Has anyone heard about the e-mail going round stating Aspartame has been linked
to a form of poisoning in the body similar to formaldahyde poisoning? I got this
e-mail and checked it thru Hoax sites on-line and found nothing. I sent it to
CDC to see if they can debunk it. It was supposedly researched by some big whig
in medicing with pretty good sounding credintials. Anyway...I'll let you know
what they say. FAITH: Keep up the faith!!! Don't let the cruddy stuff posted
here sometimes get to you. You're not alone in your belief, or values. I'm glad
you're doing well with your health at this time. Only thing I got going is the
need for new eyes to see up close. My glasses come in tomorrow. I guess I have
lots to be thankful for. My husband has CAD, and is having a liver biopsy the
8th to confirm diagnosis of Hemostosis something or other..basically it's too
much iron in the blood and can be mis-diagnosed at diabetes, and a whole host of
other things. His BS levels are all over the place, but he has no lows or
ketoacidosis (sp?). But it can cause a whole host of other problems as well as
over time destroy the liver, and other vital organs, and cause body aches. We're
just prayin' not much damage if any has happened yet. Poor guy has been thru a
lot the last few years. And is just about to give up. He keeps saying...just one
more thing....that's not what I need. Sorry I didn';t mean to get so long
winded... Anyway, You all have a good nite . Connie
On Mon Jul 30 22:48:34 2001 Herb (hjs38@swbell) said:
I hate to disapoint
any body but I wrote it. My youngest girl Becky was on the debate team in high
school. Herb (Bear)
On Mon Jul 30 22:22:37 2001 () said:
Herb , we don't belive you wrote
that...where did you copy it from ?
On Mon Jul 30 22:21:09 2001 () said:
KILL A COMMIE FOR CHRIST
On Mon Jul 30 22:20:46 2001 () said:
Thanks Steve, now I don't need a
sleeping pill tonight.
On Mon Jul 30 21:26:08 2001 Herb (Bear) (hjs38@swbell.net) said:
A debate
can be an extremely stimulating intellectual exercise. But debates have rules.
First, it is a given that the debaters disagree on the point being debated.
Second, name calling, Character assasination, misquoting the opponent, and
insults are all strictly forbidden. The underlying tenant is that the debaters
will respect each other and their case or their case will be thrown out and they
will be declared the losers. Third, facts and opinions have to be seperated and
identified. Facts have to be backed up with sources. Opinions have to be stated
as opinions and carry very little weight in the debate. And we need to keep in
mind that virtually no debate has ever changed any ones mind regardless of who
was declared winner. In fact debate teams arrive at the debate prepared to
debate both sides of the the question and leard which case they are presenting
the day of the debate. In the interest of civiliity and respect for each other
could we utilize some of the rules of debate when discussing issues on this
board?? Herb (Bear)
On Mon Jul 30 20:44:46 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
Dear
19:46:39 -- I always stand behind what I've said and believe, even to the point
of putting my name and email address here. I'm not ashamed of my beliefs and
feel free to share them here or anywhere. Why do you resort to accusations that
have no basis in fact? Instead of throwing accusations around, why can't you
just rationally discuss issues? Or better yet, why not be an adult and realize
that no everyone agrees with you. (Surprise!) As a wise person once said, I'm
not perfect, just forgiven. And for me, despite diabetes and high blood
pressure, that's enough.
On Mon Jul 30 19:46:39 2001 () said:
Steve, instead of always saying you are
being misquoted and misinterpreted, try standing behind previous posts. That
would eliminate any need for your endless backtracking. The only other person to
have said you are right and others are wrong was Faith, so take that up with
her, not me.
On Mon Jul 30 19:11:56 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
It's
odd but I don't recall ever claiming that I was right. All I've done is express
my opinion and beliefs. To some they may seem right; to others they seem wrong.
If you disagree with me, that's fine, but don't misquote, misinterpret me. I
never said I was right and everyone else was wrong. That's a prime example of
what I mean when I say I am misinterpreted. I express my opinion and suddenly
people think I am saying I'm right and they are wrong. I've said before you are
entitled to your opinion as I am mine. We are both free to express them here as
I will continue to do. As for SCR and pro-life, it's a natural extension of my
beliefs NOT to support SCR on embroynic cells. However, I have said before and
will repeat again-- I do support SCR on cells recovered from umbilical cord
blood and from consenting adult volunteers. I am not totally against all SCR;
just that which destroys what I consider a human life (an embryo). Right or
wrong, that's my belief and opinion. Feel free to twist that as you will
now.
On Mon Jul 30 18:08:40 2001 () said:
17:40. Very good point. We can change
the world with this technology. I read here all the time that everyone thinks
the drug companies stop progress to keep us ill. Now the attempt to stop
progress with the "religion card". When will people stop and realize that we can
take a huge step towards curing many diseases, not just diabetes. The thought of
being able to immediately cure a new born child of disease should please
everyone, no matter what their beliefs are. That IMHO is PROLIFE.
On Mon Jul 30 17:40:55 2001 () said:
17;03;06....Good Post..agree 100
percent....how about all the unborn people that can be saved a life of misery
and disability with what we are doing with SCR, that is if you religionists do
not get the world of card carrying ring kissers that you want...
On Mon Jul 30 17:36:42 2001 () said:
FAITH " TO ME IT SHOWS FEAR OF FINDING
OUT WE ARE RIGHT AND THE ATTACKER IS WRONG IN HIS/HER BELIEFS" IN THE 14:51
POST. BECAUSE YOU, HERB AND STEVE ARE CHRISTIAN THAT MAKES YOU RIGHT? THAT KIND
OF COMMENT IS THE REASON RELIGION MAKES PEOPLE MAD. YOU USE IT TO JUDGE YOURSELF
HIGHER THEN THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE. YOU ACT AS IF YOUR STAND A HIGHER MORAL
GROUND BECAUSE YOU ARE CHRISTIAN. THAT WOULD MAKE YOU A HYPOCRITE. GOD JUST
LOVES A HYPOCRITE, DOESN'T HE?
On Mon Jul 30 17:03:06 2001 () said:
Hey John, there are other people here
who disagree with Steve. If you think you have me nailed by than versus then
than or then you are mistaken. The only thing you guys have done right is get
Marc W to shut up and leave. As to you Steve, I would ask you why you think your
or is it you're being misinterpreted, but I have no interest in hearing your
dribble again and again. Do you have a good memory? I was wondering if you
remember the last time you were wrong? Have you ever been wrong? Or does god
make all your or you're wrongs right? All I know is Christian, Jewish, Baptists,
Athiests, I could care less about that. I don't care if god exists or not, I
care about curing diabetes, taking those first steps to do so. Isn't saving a
life pro life? Wouldn't it make sense to protect those living with the same
vigor as you protect the unborn? I don't know, maybe I am just different. I just
don't want this disease anymore, no matter what it takes. I seem to be the
minority here.
On Mon Jul 30 15:06:24 2001 Faith (same) said:
I don't know, why do SOME
atheists hate Christians, my point is, do not lump me and others in the
statement you have made before!
On Mon Jul 30 15:06:21 2001 () said:
IS NO MIDDLE GROUND WITH YOU SO CALLED
CHRISTIANS EVERYONE THATS LOOKS AT THE REAL WORLD IS A BABY KILLER...OR CAN GET
THEIR NAME AND PHOTO POSTED ON THE PRO LIFER HIT SITES...
On Mon Jul 30 15:02:10 2001 () said:
Ok Faith...they why do some Bapists
hate Jews and Catholics...??
On Mon Jul 30 14:51:53 2001 Faith (same) said:
Why is anyone that says they
are against SCR automatically tagged as being a religous nut? Yes, I'm a
Christian, and yes, I'm opposed to SCR where it involves the life of a baby. And
to me that's at conception! BUT, I know a lot of people who are NOT Christians
who are opposed to this procedure for the same reasons I am. One must never lump
all in the same mold w/o knowing all the facts. One should never blast another
because of their belief in Christ, i.e., ALL Southern Baptist hate Catholics and
Jews. My husband, a Baptist pastor, is very good friends with the local priest
in our little town, and I have some cousins that I love dearly who are
Catholics. As for hating Jews, (1) Christ was/is a Jew, (2) My
great-great-grandmother was Jewish. As I've said once before on here, if I hated
Jews it would be like hating myself. This blasting of Herb, Steve and others
because we are not ashamed to say we are Christians is so childish. To me it
shows a FEAR of finding out we are right and the attacker is wrong in his/her
beliefs. I know what I'm going to hear, what does this all have to do with
diabetes? Well, maybe nothing and then again maybe everything, it's all how you
look at the way one manages their diabetes. Myself, I depend on my Lord and then
my doctors. I give the Lord all the credit for the fact I've been able to keep
this lovely disease in control for 33 years. And I give credit to the doctors,
especially the one who got me to go on the pump. Why doesn't my Lord cure me,
well, if it was His will, He would! Who am I to question Him in His wisdom? I
know I will get flack on this post, but that is his/her right! Just as it is my
right to have my say, and how I handle diabetes and what helps me to manage it.
On Mon Jul 30 14:02:37 2001 Herb (Bear) (hjs38@swbell.net) said:
To (): Yes
I went against medical advice. Yes I was stupid and ignored my disease for far
to many years. Yes I am paying a dear price for my stupidity. BUT, No I did not
make a religious drama out of it. I never mentioned religion. No I do not want
pity from you or anybody else. But I will hold my head up and try and do the
best I can with the days I have left. And I will tell my story to anyone as
encouragement for them to not make the same stupid mistakes that I did. Herb
(Bear)
On Mon Jul 30 13:54:59 2001 Jim (same) said:
13:38:19- I don't believe Herb
is asking for pity nor do I think he ever has. If you really read his post,
you'll see the point he was making. Remember, Hooked on Phonics can work for you
too! It will help you with your reading comprehension (Or lack of it). I will
only add this to the current dialogue: I recall someone who used to post here
that had a daughter, (I think named Marie?) who has terrible complications but
not from lack of control. IN MY OWN CASE, had I took control of my diabetes when
I started getting the symptoms, MAYBE my complications wouldn't be so severe.
Instead, I waited almost 2 years for diagnosis, even though I knew that the
symptoms were diabetes. Everyone is different. Sometimes complications CAN be
our own fault, and sometimes not. Jim
On Mon Jul 30 13:38:19 2001 () said:
Dear Herb, in other words your need to
make a religious drama out of going to Mexico aginst medical advice brought your
disease out of control, and now you want us to feel pity for you...
On Mon Jul 30 13:33:50 2001 () said:
MARC W ALWAYS USES 'THAN' WHERE HE
MEANS TO SAY'THEN'......BE A MAN MARC AND USE YOUR NAME..............
On Mon Jul 30 13:33:45 2001 () said:
Whats a shemale ?
On Mon Jul 30 13:09:01 2001 Sam () said:
Thank you, Herb & Jim. I
enjoyed your posts. Herb, my thoughts are with you. My lovely Daughter just
turned 31..has hypothyroidism, but was tested by the U of M..and is not prone to
IDDM. I sympathize with you. As for diabetes, the coming heat wave affects me
badly..I don't sweat anymore, due to neuropathy. If it is hitting any of you,
drink plenty of water! Don't forget water in this heat.
On Mon Jul 30 13:08:34 2001 () said:
HEY STEVIE,.....WHY DONT YOU AND MARC W
TAKE THIS ARGUEMENT TO YOUR FAVOURITE SHEMALE SITE AND ARGUE
THERE??????????.....
On Mon Jul 30 12:56:33 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
Dear
(): There you go again: misinterpret, misconstrue, misrepresent. Oh the
reference to my "idiotic comments" is a refreshing perspective on what is
"reasonable discussion." I'll have to remember that one! Interesting though --
we do disagree. How about that -- and by my observations the world is still
rotating on its axis, the universe has not imploded and life goes on for both of
us. Wow! As I said, you have the right to your opinion and to express it as you
wish here as much as I do. I just try to avoid the hysteria, misrepresentation,
and personal attacks you seem to revel in.
On Mon Jul 30 12:43:43 2001 () said:
OK, Steve, is this better? No
screaming. Now to assume your not compasionate is as easy as reading the post at
11:41 and I quote " you die from diabetes when you choose to let IT control
YOU". Now what that says to me is if someone has diabetic complications or dies
from diabetes than IYHO that person let it happen. That is NAIVE, and yes not
COMPASIONATE. The fact that I am not using my name does not make my post less
informative or as important as yours. I am not calling you names and attacking
you, I am merely responding to your idiotic comments about this disease and you
apparent lack of understanding to what it does to you. That's all, no hysteria.
Just plain talk. Is that not something you can handle? I mean your extremely
opinionated on religion, stem cell research and the rest. Are we not able to
respond to that? I simply believe that diabetes kills, that is a scientific
fact, and I believe that we need to do something to stop that. In other words I
disagree with your view on stem cell research and religion. If you don't want a
discussion regarding your views, try not posting them. If you feel the need to
discuss it than we have the right to respond. And as I said earlier, I think
letting diabetics get sick and die when there MAY be something out there to help
us is unethical and immoral. My opinion, and it counts as much as yours.
On Mon Jul 30 12:36:38 2001 Herb (Bear) (hjs38@swbell.net) said:
TO (): You
are right I would rather not be in this chair and not have all the physical
problems that I do. BUT, I have to accept the vast majority of the
responsibility for my being where I am. I was diagnosed in '85 just prior to
going to Mexico City with our disaster relief team to work the earthquake. When
the dr. asked if there was any way he could talk me out of going my response was
"NO WAY". We could not drink the water so while I there I drank their coffee
that they brew with large sticks of cinnamon and huge amounts of sugar as well
as the national bottled soft drink of Mexico which is a carbonated apple juice
and is very sweet. I winked at my diabetes until '99. I went to a GP who would
tell me that I needed to get my sugar down a bit if when I went in for an
appointment it was over 300 which it if it was over 300 and it nearly always
was. I collapsed in '99 and was hospitalized locally. My oldest daughter who is
a cardiac special care nurse in Albuquerque came to check on me. Jodi had just
graduated from nursing school and new that there was some thing wrong with my
treatment but wasn't brave enough to speak up at that time. When Kris looked at
all my records and tests she came to me and told me that I had a decision to
make. If I was to stay in our local hospital that I was going to die, that they
were not capable of giving me the level of treatment that I needed. Within 2
hours I was on a helicopter headed to Baptist Hospital in OKC. Then I really got
a shock. I not only had diabetes, I had congestive heart failure, diabetic
neurothapy, diabetic retinopathy, arterial blockage, and sleep apnea. So you see
I had really done myself in. This desease is so weird in the things that it will
do and sometimes not do who is to say where I would be if I had gone to a Endo
and cared for myself like I should have. I'm sorry that this got so long but I
did not know how to say what I wanted to in less words. Herb (Bear) and Jodi
On Mon Jul 30 12:31:48 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
I
describe hysteria as "screaming." That is: THIS IS SCREAMING (note all caps).
This is discussing (note not all caps). Screaming = hysteria. Also, you seem to
be the only one coming to the conclusions about me that you do. You make
assumptions not based on fact, you misinterpret what people say, you make no
attempt to get to know the other person -- I'd say that's about as unreasonable
as one can get. Also, I don't put any stock in what an AP says -- if you're too
cowardly to post your name and address (please spare us the whining about how it
will be sold -- that's never happened and you know it!), then your comments are
worth about as much as a bucket of warm spit. Oops, sorry - I guess that makes
me seem uncompassionate. Sorry, I know better and so do the people who make the
effort and take the time to get to know me.
On Mon Jul 30 12:16:58 2001 () said:
YEA STEVE GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR
ASS....
On Mon Jul 30 12:14:29 2001 () said:
STEVE, I DON'T SEE WHERE THIS ISN'T A
NORMAL DISCUSSION. YOU THINK DIABETES WON'T GET YOU UNLESS YOU LET IT, I THINK
YOU HAVE NO CLUE TO WHAT THIS DISEASE CAN AND WILL DO TO YOU. JUST AS YOU SAY,
IMHO. YOU HAVE ALWAYS HAD THAT APPROACH TO DIABETES, AND YOU HAVE ALWAYS COME
OFF AS IF SOMEONE "LET" DIABETES DO TO THEM WHATEVER HAPPENED. YOU HAVE ZERO
COMPASION. WHAT'S HYSTERICAL ABOUT THAT? IT'S A LOGICAL, TRUTHFUL(JUST READ YOUR
OWN POSTS ONCE IN A WHILE) APPROACH TO THIS DISCUSSION.
On Mon Jul 30 12:09:59 2001 () said:
YEA STEVE GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR
ASS....
On Mon Jul 30 12:05:40 2001 Steve () said:
Dear 11:57:59 -- You prove my
point that is it impossible to have a reasonable discussion with APs on here.
Why do you become so hysterical over an opinion? You choose to think what you
want; I will believe what I want. Maybe you could learn to disagree without the
hysteria.
On Mon Jul 30 11:57:59 2001 () said:
STEVE, ARE YOU NOT AWARE OF THE FACTS
OF YOUR DISEASE? HEART DISEASE, BLINDNESS, STROKE, LOSS OF LIMBS, ETC. THESE
PEOPLE DON'T CHOOSE THAT. SOME OF THE MOST WELL MANAGED DIABETICS END UP DEAD OR
VERY SICK. READ UP BUDDY. YOU NEED AN EDUCATION. FOR EVERY FAITH THERE IS
SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T BEAT IT. OR LOST SOMETHING FROM IT. I AM SURE HERB WOULD
RATHER NOT BE IN THAT WHEELCHAIR. WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE HERE WHO HAD KIDNEY
TRANSPLANTS? DID THEY BRING IT ON THEMSELVES? THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH VISION
PROBLEMS AND HEART PROBLEMS, DO YOU THINK THEY DESERVED THAT? MAYBE IF THEY WERE
MANAGING THEIR DIABETES BETTER NOTHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO THEM, RIGHT? COULD
YOU BE MORE NAIVE?
On Mon Jul 30 11:41:05 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
Dear
AP: The point is you don't have to die from diabetes. It is a disease that can
be controlled. People manage to do it every day. Faith posted that she was
diagnosed 33 years ago and she is still going strong. Via diet, exercise and
meds, I am gaining a little more control each day. IMHO, you die from diabetes
when you choose to let IT control YOU.
On Mon Jul 30 11:11:32 2001 Jim (s) said:
family friend OR member of the
clergy. Sorry
On Mon Jul 30 11:08:59 2001 Jim (same) said:
Meredith- I wish I could say
something good about that situation, but in my opinion, the only person that can
make themselves be "diabetic compliant" is the diabetic themselves. If she don't
take care of it she will almost certainly pay the price. Can't your friend get a
family friend of member of the clergy to talk to her? Jim
On Mon Jul 30 10:52:40 2001 () said:
STEVE, I THINK DYING FROM DIABETES IS
UNETHICAL AND IMMORAL. 2 SIDES TO EVERYTHING.
On Mon Jul 30 10:36:38 2001 Herb (Bear) (hjs38@swbell.net) said:
JIM: Thanks
for asking about the girls. No they neither one have been diagnosed with
diabetes. But, they are 24 and 36, I was not diagnosed until I was 47, 63 now.
They are doing as well as can be expected. Beth, the older girl ravaged her body
for years with bulemia, and anorexia and has very few physical defenses left.
Becky the younger has the advantage of youth and a much healthier body before
the Masto. They see the same doctor whose goal is to try and prevent Becky from
getting to where Beth is at. We are fortunate to have him in OKC he is one of
the leading Masto specialists in the world. The national conference on Masto is
in OKC in September and he is the featured speaker. We hope to go to the
conference but it is pretty expensive, $150 a day. Jodi and I had a great
weekend. We drove up to Porter (the peach capitol of Oklahoma) and bought a
basket of peaches. Then we drove over to Tahlequa and visited an old friend that
runs a camp and a canoe rental operation on the Illinois River. I used to take
groups of boys up there from the camp on week long canoeing and camping trips
when we were at the boys camp. The only sad note that we drove by the spot that
Bryan my 24 year old nephew was killed on July 6th. We came back through
Muskogee and has some smoked ribs at Cowboy's. Cowboy's barbecue is run by the
nephew of an old friend of ours from Tulsa. Been enjoying the peaches ever since
and the blood sugar is doing great! Herb (Bear) and Jodi
On Mon Jul 30 10:34:21 2001 Jim (same) said:
Thanks Faith. I thought about
this place on and off over the weekend. When I think back to what it was when I
first found it a year and a half ago, it makes me sick. There were a few AP's on
it, but everyone was resilient and kept posting. I think if people would just
come back and not let the insults get to them (which can be hard to do), they
might go away. Over the last few days, I've been taking some hits on here, but I
decided that since they don't know me, the words don't bother me. Why do I jab
back at them? Because all ignoring has done is make more and more people leave,
giving them exactly what they want. As long as they know that they can't piss us
off, it won't be fun for them anymore. My opinion. Jim
On Mon Jul 30 10:22:26 2001 Faith (same) said:
Ditto Jim!
On Mon Jul 30 10:17:03 2001 Jim (same) said:
Geez, Rock music only promotes
good family values I guess. I though "people" cause divorce wife abuse and
alcoholism. Maybe you should finish off your bottle and re-think this when you
come to. You are for sure mentally messed up my friend. We feel for you. Jim
On Mon Jul 30 10:11:36 2001 Faith (same) said:
10:04 How strange you
are??????????
On Mon Jul 30 10:10:16 2001 Faith (saext@hotmail.com) said:
Steve - enjoyed
your last post. Couldn't agree more! Yesterday was my 54th Birthday, and had a
really good day. And to think, when I was dx'd, 33 years ago, I was told I had
30 years or so left, then after that, down hill I would go. They couldn't have
been more wrong. The advancements made in 'treatment' has kept me going. The
greatest being the pump! Hope you all have a great day!
On Mon Jul 30 10:04:44 2001 () said:
HOW DOES COUNTRY MUSIC WHICH HELPS
CAUSE DIVORCE WIFE ABUSE AND ALCHOLISM HAVE TO DO WITH DIABETES PLEASE EXPLAIN
MORE
On Mon Jul 30 10:00:53 2001 () said:
Dear Steve, why don't you just say God
does not want stem cell research..., it means about as much as your post does to
validity....
On Mon Jul 30 09:58:08 2001 Jim (jimfultz@alltel.net) said:
Good Monday
Morning Everyone! I see the SCR debate rages on. Linda- You're welcome. Hope you
had a good weekend. Sam- Playboy Mansion? See, us diabetics are sweeter and we
get to rub elbows with celebrities. There's a rising star in Country Music named
Tammy Cochran who's originally from Austinburg, Ohio. I played in a band with
her for a few years, playing to the bar crowds. She's had 2 hits now. Watch her.
She'll be fairly big. Saturday night @ 19:02:21- No, I'm not homophobic. Just
"you-a-phobic". Last night's poster that called you pathetic, hit the nail on
the head with you. Anyway, I digress. I'm having far too good a day to let you
even remotely ruin it. Good day everyone. Jim P.S.- Gordo- How are you doing?
Herb- How's your daughters doing? I'm curious, I know they have Masto. Are they
diabetic as well?
On Mon Jul 30 09:34:21 2001 Sam (raneysam@yahoo.com) said:
"Adipose" is fat
tissue. And being a blonde didn't make me dumb. That was years ago, but I
remember it well. Got me into the Playboy Mansion, so Hugh & his friends
were the dumb ones. You guys...look under the hair...some blondes are smart,
even if they are pre-diabetic & thin, mostly. All life is the stage & we
are the players. I stay behind stage now, but like to watch. A little humor
before the dentist..diabetes does not do well on teeth. Sam, the Wanderer...
On Mon Jul 30 08:55:03 2001 Steve (stevew_johnson@hotmail.com) said:
Mooky,
you might want to include the complete information about this survey. First, the
survey was conducted with "more than 1000 individuals. The report gave not
margin of error, but with a sample of this size, the margin of error can be from
4 to 6% or more. Only 70% who responded said they were "familiar" (a vague term)
with stem cell research. On the other hand, 4 in 10 respondents agreed with the
statement that "using cells from human embryos for research comes too close to
allowing scientists to play God," and about one third (33%) said that stem cell
research is "unethical and immoral."
On Mon Jul 30 01:27:48 2001 Mooky (Mooky@hotmail.com) said:
T-CELL INJECTION
PROMPTS ISLET CELL TRANSPLANT ACCEPTANCE Work with rats indicates that the
immune system can be induced to permanently accept foreign islets without the
need for chronic immunosuppression, a finding of potential value in diabetes
treatment, according to researchers from Columbia University College of
Physicians and Surgeons, New York. http://diabetes.medscape.com/ SIX IN TEN
AMERICANS FAVOR STEM CELL RESEARCH About 60% of Americans, including many
Catholics and born-again Christians, support embryonic stem cell research,
according to the results of a Harris poll released Wednesday.
http://diabetes.medscape.com/
Copyright © 2001 Diabetes Education and Research Center